PO3tRi
Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 7
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Reply with quote | #1 |
I was on myspace today reading a blog that someone had written about making a conscious decision to be celibate and get a closer relationship with God. The total gist of the blog was good, the writer had some valid points that I could not only relate to, but also, agree with.
The thing is, when I saw the photo that the person had posted as their main picture, I could not believe the person I was seeing was the same person who was the author of this blog. She was wearing a dress, cut right below her butt. The sleeves was hanging off her shoulders and the sides of the dress had slits cut in it.
After seeing her picture, it made it really hard for me to focus on what she was trying to say in her blog. How can someone expect to be taken seriously when their Image does not depict the things they say? I am having a hard time understanding that. I know that people will say "the bible says come as you are" but in my opinion, people have taken some bible quotes and given them their own meanings. To me, "come as you are" means, flaws and all...its not speaking about your attire.
Now, I know a lot of people in my generation will say "well, I love God and just because I'm a Christian doesn't mean I have to dress like a Monk...I have my own style and individualism." That is true, but where does the two meet? Where does your style and individualism meet with your Christianity? If you are a true Christian, shouldn't you have some limitations as to the things you will and will not wear? I mean, clothes and appearance aside, where exactly do you draw the line on what you will and will not do to be taken seriously as a Christian?
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PRo
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Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 8
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Reply with quote | #2 |
A lot of it boils down to people not really meaning what they say... but they do mean what they wear! If I believe something in my heart and then let it out of my mouth others don't really believe I believe what I say until they see how I carry myself. In my opinion, you may be celebate... as in "not having sex" but if you are dressing like a "hoochie-mama" it doesn't matter if you're having it or not... you're selling it... and in my book that's worse than having it... that's prostitution!
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Pastor Ro
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sistaperry
Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 6
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Reply with quote | #3 |
To everything there is a process. The first step in a transformation is admitting that there is a need for one. The young lady decided to declare her celibacy which is a remarkable step. Most times the pictures posted to internet sites are usually past photos, but even if she took them yesterday, she is undergoing a process. She has to be given a little latitude in that she may not have it all together, but at least she has taken the first step. Calling her names or refusing to believe that she is serious is not for anyone to judge. I'm sure we all have enough in our own lives to judge ourselves by. I understand you're supposed to look the part when you make a declaration, but what is to be said about those who look the part, pretend to walk the walk, yet are far from it? What is to be said of people who know better,but continue in there wrong doing? What about those who condone the very action which they know is wrong (hands down) by pretending that it's not their business while others are being hurt? Being a Christian has more to do with what's inside than what's on the outside. Let's hope and pray that the young lady has a smooth transition and a complete transformation. It is good that ultimately God has the last say and He does not think like man. The Bible states it best when it says "For man looketh on the outward appearance, but God looketh on the heart."
Sistaperry
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PRo
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Reply with quote | #4 |
Sista Perry, (lol!)
Although I agree with everything you said, I don't think it fits this situation. Our sister didn't say she judged the young lady, she said she was disturbed by what she saw. We as believers have to stop feeling like we are judging people by holding them accountable for who they say they are. They hold us accountable. As soon as a believer falls short, the unbeliever is quickest to bring up their mistake... mainly because we are held accountable for who we say we are. To judge someone is to offer an opinion where it was not requested. To hold somebody accountable for their actions is to remind them of who they proclaim to be. Let's be real... we all fall short and it takes those reminders of who we are in God to quickly rebuild us and reposition us to where we belong in the spirit. The difference is, believers don't mind being rebuilt when we fall apart. The unbeliever hates conviction.
Another thing to look at here... just because someone proclaims to be celibate doesn't mean they are doing it for a holy reason. People go celibate all the time. Many just want to save themselves for their husbands and it has nothing to do with God. Some people go celibate because they are afraid of diseases and they feel safe knowing who they are with will be the person they will be with forever. Other people go celibate because of past experiences in relationships that made them not one to be intimate as a single person again. We can't assume that just because this young lady is celebate that she is doing it to fulfill a promise to God. Truth be told, if you are really into God... distasteful photos wouldn't be on your myspace page, whether you are celibate or not.
Accountability means, you do and act in a way that reflects what you proclaim to stand for. A person who says, "I don't smoke anymore" shouldn't be walking around with a pack of cigarettes in their shirt pocket. If so, then I don't truly believe you don't smoke anymore. A person who says "I don't drink" shouldn't have beer in their refrigerator. If so, I don't truly believe you don't drink. If you agree with that... then you also agree with a person who says "I'm celebate" shouldn't be looking like she's into sexual encounters. If so, I don't truly believe you are celebate.
I do agree with you, for what you replied is actually scriptural. Those in the kingdom may judge each other but only Christ judges those outside it. I totally understand your point of view because judgment upon each other has torn our people apart. But let's just make sure we are not confusing judgment with holding people accountable for their actions.
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Pastor Ro
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sistaperry
Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 6
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Reply with quote | #5 |
Pastor Ro,
My focus was not so much on the term "judge" as it was on the process of being transformed and being taken seriously as a Christian. My statements were primarily geared towards being a Christian from the inside out and not vice versa. First, the blog stated that the young lady was declaring celibacy and wanted to develop a closer relationship with God. ie: ( I was on myspace today reading a blog that someone had written about making a conscious decision to be celibate and get a closer relationship with God.) Secondly, you may as well have called the young lady a prostitute which is harsh. See your quote below:
(In my opinion, you may be celebate... as in "not having sex" but if you are dressing like a "hoochie-mama" it doesn't matter if you're having it or not... you're selling it... and in my book that's worse than having it... that's prostitution!)
I basically wanted to address the statement about where we draw the line as Christians in order to be taken seriously. And I still say that it's not the outer appearance that should concern one as much as it is the deeds and actions. ie If you are a true Christian, shouldn't you have some limitations as to the things you will and will not wear? I mean, clothes and appearance aside, where exactly do you draw the line on what you will and will not do to be taken seriously as a Christian?) To often, we have those that look like what we think a Christians looks like, profess to be Christians, but their actions are as far from God as the east is from the west.
Spiritually speaking, when we were in the world we thought as the world and we acted as the world dictated to a certain degree. We did not think anything was wrong with our behavior. Likewise, this young lady was or may still be in the world and she probably didn't think anything was wrong with her attire. Again, that could very well be an old photo. Needless to say, it doesn't matter. If she receives good teaching, the Bible is going to convict her on lifestyle, behavior, and attire.
Moreover, we have to give the young lady latitude and compassion as to the state she's in right now. Before we write her off based solely on her apparel, let's hope that she crosses paths with someone who is genuinely walking or diligently trying to walk in holiness in words and in deeds. Let's hope that being viewed as a true Christian has not been minimized to how we look on the outside, but rather how we show love and compassion towards those who have embarked on the glorious journey of getting to know our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! The Bible states it best when it says they profess to love me with their mouths, but their hearts are far from me!"
Sistaperry
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PRo
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Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 8
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Reply with quote | #6 |
I knew you'd reply! lol (By the way for others reading, its a debate... that's all. We do it all the time!)
You have a lot of uncertain statements. We don't know this... we don't know that. What we do know is... this young lady knew enough about the word to stop having sex which means she can look at an outfit and decide if its tasteful or tasteless. It's obvious you think I don't have a heart to understand the lost and the brothers and sisters who are struggling with holiness but that's not true.
In my years on this journey, what I've seen entirely too much is people hiding behind statements like... "well God knows my heart..." or "God is still working with me..." When the truth is, I was one of the ones who said God is still working on me years ago... while I lit a blunt and went straight to the club. The truth is I knew better and I still did what I wanted to do. I wasn't right and I don't believe God was pleased with those actions.
I don't know if the young lady is truly trying to get closer to God or not. Just because she says it doesn't mean it is true. It is unpopular to not want to get closer to God. Even the drug dealer has found a way to convince himself that God is okay with what he does. Thugs believe there is a heaven for a gangster. When the truth is, people need to stop playing with God.
I hope the young lady is truly celibate. Man, that would surely be a positive move in her life. But if she is celibate and still using her body to get what she wants, the only thing that has changed is the act. You can dress it up or call it harsh if you want to. I have been on myspace and believe me... some of the smartest people in this world are on there and they know exactly what they are presenting when they put their explicit pictures on there. The problem is there are too many people laughing with them and saying its cute that they don't even recognize the error of their ways. Then when someone like me comes along to render the truth about their actions, we're 'mean and too hard'.
Prostitution is using your body to get what you want. Men do it too. The bottom line is, there is no cute thing to say about it. If you're in God, change your image and I'm sorry, you're wrong. Your outer appearance is just as important as your inner person. The bible says we are not to cause our brother to stumble. If you were stranded on the side of the road at night and someone came up to your car looking dangerous, you would not let your window down. It's the same thing with the Kingdom. If we are going to pull people to this precious lifestyle, we need to look like what we say we represent or we send a mixed image to those who really need God's help. We are His image and quite frankly, some of us make God look bad.
This has nothing to do with a style or a namebrand. But it does have a lot to do with presentation. If the young lady is truly trying to get close to God.... well, it can start with how she represents him in public.
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Pastor Ro
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PRo
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Reply with quote | #7 |
By the way, this wasn't an old picture on myspace. It wasn't mixed up in old albums. The writer said it was her main picture which meant she was proud of this one and it was the one she wanted everyone to see first. Your main photo on myspace is the one that presents who you are to the world.
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Pastor Ro
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sistaperry
Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 6
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Reply with quote | #8 |
Now Pastor, (you know I have to be the advocate that keeps hope alive! lol
Because Obama won tonight, we know one thing-Yes, She can! Change! lol For those reading, we are not beefing.)
There are no uncertain statements, I stated my point of view quite directly. You should re-read all of our dialogue. Au Contrare, I know that you do have the heart for the lost because We all have a GRIP! However, I think you just overrated the young lady's level in which she is operating under. The standard you are applying to the young lady is one that is befitting to a more seasoned Christian, not a beginner. She probably doesn't really know who she is, let alone the price that was paid for her. She is a novice in Christ. She has a long road to tow and it's obvious with her choice of picture selection. It stands to reason she is truly who God is referring to when He said He winks at our ignorance; or when He says He shows compassion to the fools.
Only a fool, and I do use the term fool loosely, would make such a bold statement and leave that unappealing photo on the same page in which she made her declaration. That's just like calling your pastor and saying, "Pray for me Pastor, for I'm about to sin, while she is already undressed and doing the nasty."
I stand by my statement that compassion and understanding are in order in this situation. You are wrong for referring to her as a prostitute. Prostitution is selling sexual services for monetary gain or for something of value. To my understanding she was just posing for pictures and thought they were becoming while looking through the lens of worldly eyes. She probably has a body and thought she was rocking that dress! It's not that you or we as a body are too hard on denouncing unbecoming behavior or outside appearances, it just when you learn better, you do better. I doubt if she is pulling anyone to Christ at this time, however, in the future she will, provided she receives good instruction. Again, that whole kingdom building aspect of drawing people to Christ and looking the part doesn't apply to her because she is still learning.
Let's pray that she becomes aware of her folly and that she does better eventually, but give her a chance! Paul says it best when he stated, "Therefore if any man be in Christ he (she) is a new creature, old things have passed away, behold all things are BECOME new!" She is still becoming!
Sistaperry
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PRo
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Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 8
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Reply with quote | #9 |
Wait a minute Eldorado (lol)... Don't try to use my own sermons against me! (lololololol)
I know she is becoming.... but don't say you've become until you have became!!! (lol)
We're on the same page. I just don't like this new era of young people who assume if they say they are "getting closer to God" they can use that statement and still do what they please in the flesh. Truth is, many of us aren't really even putting forth an effort to truly "get closer to God." It just sound convenient for the situation we are temporarily dealing with. Usually, once the circumstance blows over... I guess they are "through getting closer to God" because they go right back to doing what they never really stopped doing. The statement should not be just a figure of speech. It's not. Some improvements on behalf of self come along with that statement.
I am a rebel and I am very opinionated and I am also very disciplined. So, it is hard for me to understand how a person who doesn't like smoke will sit in a room full of it. It is hard for me to understand how a person who dislikes a lifestyle continues to live it. I know sometimes we want to be released from a struggle and many times it is hard to let go of a stronghold... BUT don't say you HAVE (past tense) if you are still under its grip.
To say I'm "getting closER to God" implies that you are already in him and you're trying to go higher. Evidentially from the sound of those pictures she wasn't too deep in him!!!
But we're on the same page. I just love my lifestyle and I love what Jesus representents in my life. I am overprotective of his image and his name because misrepresenting either one... virtually misrepresents what I stand for.
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Pastor Ro
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PO3tRi
Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 7
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Reply with quote | #10 |
I enjoyed reading the two of you debate on this blog. You both said some things that made me think in more depth and gave me a better understanding of my own relationship with God, the growth process as a christian, and how one should conduct themselves as a christian.
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Achoo...Allergic 2 Stupidity!!! |
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msmia
Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 3
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Reply with quote | #11 |
hello family,
I've been following this topic and I could not help but chime in. I think both of you make very good points but I would have to side more with PRo. Just because the actual sex act is not being committed that does not mean that it is not prostitution. Now no one is calling HER a prostitute we're just saying the outfit is selling the idea of promiscuity. NOW LET'S BE HONEST! We have all at one point in our lives looked at someone (who called themselves a Christian) and said to ourselves or someone else "Did you see that get up she had on? Um, and she calls herself a Christian!" Let's keep it real! Before she made the decision to get herself together she knew that the outfit in that pic did not say Christian. That's that "God knows my heart "cop out. As long as she has on her "Koko Pellis finest", no body will take her seriously. I can't call the scripture right off (maybe you guys can help me), but the Bible says that as Christians we must try to stay away from even the look of impropriety. I know that with the way the world looks to misconstrue every thing that this can be hard, but we can control stuff like the image we give out when we dress a certain way.
Now to answer the original question that the first person asked about where to draw the line I would say look to some of today's Gospel artists. I heard an interview w/ Yolanda Adams on the Steve Harvey Morning show and she said that she hopes that she could show that sexy did not have to be half naked (this was in response to Steve catching flack for saying she was sexy during a performance at the BET Gospel Celebration). I personally think she has a really great sense of style that shows being a Christian does not mean turtle neck shirts and floor length corduroy skirts all year long. We women love to complain about what men find sexy but we don't do anything to change it. Instead we fall into what the world says sexy is and try to emulate it or judge each other by it. This goes back to what PRo said about holding people accountable for their actions. You can still be trendy w/o putting everything up for lease with an option to buy.
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sistaperry
Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 6
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Reply with quote | #12 |
Eldorado Red, huh!(LOLLOLLOLLOL)
It has been great dialoguing with you Pastor. You know how we do it! In response to all. I totally agree with the young lady needing to get it together and working harder to project an image of a respectful "lady." I'm all for being classy, yet pleasing to the eye. I only want to be sexy for my husband. There is a way to be jazzy without exposing all of your wares. I have always been an advocate of that even when I was in the world. I agree with Msmia that too often people look to the wrong examples and attempt to emulate them.
Moreover, that is why it is very important as a Christian that we project the true image of Christ in deeds and in appearances. Just like the worldly-minded people emulate the world, likewise those coming to Christ and searching for their spiritual identity, are looking for someone to emulate. As Pastor Ro said we have to be serious about protecting our Savior's image and how it is viewed to others. Let's start with ourselves first and branch out to those who are in our spiritual circles. I admonish each and everyone of you to tap that person on the shoulder and pull that person to the side to inform them that they are misrepresenting the glorious kingdom of God. Doing all this in love of course without offending them. We are the only Bible some people read so let's give them a good adaptation of what God is really like! Paul states it best when he says present yourself as a "living sacrifice," holy and pleasing to God which is your reasonable service.
Sistaperry
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